[Podcast] The Importance of a Minimum Viable Product

 

Or as we like to say... "Don't sweat the small stuff!". Get out of the weeds, and get your back-end set up correctly first before worrying about every little design aspect on your front-end. Look at the bigger picture and get a WORKING store up and running FIRST! The back-end of your store must have a solid foundation to ensure eCommerce success.

 

Transcript 

00:00:01 Speaker 2 

Hello everyone, happy Friday and welcome to ECON stand up with Dorian Bell Bell. How are you doing on this lovely Friday Good Friday I believe right? 

00:00:10 Speaker 1 

It is. It is a Good Friday holiday. Well not a holiday, but certainly. 

00:00:16 Speaker 1 

Observed holiday in many many countries around the world. A big holiday weekend, specially in the UK in in Africa. 

00:00:26 Speaker 1 

Yeah yeah. And and obviously in Australia normally we get Monday off as well, but you know. 

00:00:33 Speaker 1 

Not us here. Grinding the wheels of ecommerce which is a 24 hour global. 

00:00:41 Speaker 2 

Well, I remember yeah and we'll we'll get to that but I actually remember the first time I worked in E commerce when Thanksgiving was no longer a holiday for me. That used to love Thanksgiving. 

00:00:51 Speaker 1 

Ah yeah. 

00:00:53 Speaker 2 

Get those days off, you know. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Nice long weekend. And then I remember I actually took a trip to Mexico. 

00:01:02 Speaker 2 

Over Thanksgiving, and that was when I realized, oh, this is no longer a holiday for me. In e-commerce. This is not something I can take off. It's it's going to be crazy. 

00:01:07 

No no. 

00:01:11 Speaker 1 

Yeah, this the ramp up to to one of. 

00:01:13 Speaker 1 

The well to the start of. 

00:01:16 Speaker 1 

The holiday selling season. 

00:01:18 Speaker 2 

Yeah, exactly, and today we're going to talk about. 

00:01:24 Speaker 2 

The importance of your MVP or minimum viable product. Getting a website up that works. Or getting an online shop up that works and making sure your back end operations are ironed out. 

00:01:35 Speaker 2 

But before we get there, there was a big piece of current events that that we should probably talk about that. 

00:01:44 Speaker 2 

Really affected basically the global economy and that is the infamous ship ever more. I believe she Evergreen ship that was stuck in the Suez Canal and basically trapped ships on both sides of. 

00:01:53 Speaker 1 

Ever given, yes. 

00:02:00 

That's great. 

00:02:00 Speaker 2 

Sabrina, why don't you talk a little bit about that? 

00:02:03 Speaker 1 

So I mean, you know it started out as you know what we've been what Twitter called it, you know, big ship stuck, big boats stuck and it was very funny. There were just thousands of memes, but. 

00:02:20 Speaker 1 

It why would one ship getting stuck in the Suez Canal? 

00:02:27 Speaker 1 

Why would it even garner international attention? You know it was very funny because it was like you know you had one job. Drive the ship through the canal but. 

00:02:39 Speaker 1 

It crippled the global economy and we're going to be seeing trickle down effects for weeks and perhaps even months. 

00:02:54 Speaker 1 

Because of this. 

00:02:54 Speaker 2 

What sort of effects do you think we might see? 

00:02:57 Speaker 1 

Well, you know this is global logistics, and it's interesting that we because we tend to talk about, you know we, we speak our podcasts is generally to E commerce entrepreneurs, maybe smaller stores. 

00:03:15 Speaker 1 

This affected global logistics and what's interesting is that our tie to the supply chain is incredibly fragile. One ship. 

00:03:28 Speaker 1 

One boat getting stuck backed up others. 

00:03:32 Speaker 1 

Uhm, you just had this domino effect from something on that ship fits into something that is part of the global economy somewhere, and that's why it became a problem. 

00:03:47 Speaker 1 

This is 1 ship out of Rotterdam. 

00:03:47 

Yeah, I see. 

00:03:50 Speaker 1 

That could have contained components you know it could have been distribution to stores in Europe, or it could have been part car parts. I think. I think it was in fact car parts. 

00:04:01 Speaker 1 

Uhm, that were actually eventually destined for Middle America. 

00:04:07 Speaker 1 

Uhm, so just that that delay then causes people who need those parts to perhaps have to invest in getting those parts by air freight, which of course is 3 times more expensive. 

00:04:21 Speaker 1 

It was just I found it insanely scary just how tenuous our logistics relationship around the world is and how interconnected don't think that just because you're fulfilling tote bags from mom's basement at the moment, you're not relyant. 

00:04:41 Speaker 1 

Ships at even the port in Rotterdam. 

00:04:44 Speaker 1 

Uhm, just in terms of distribution and it's. 

00:04:48 Speaker 1 

It's interesting these are the things that the back end of the site. 

00:04:53 Speaker 1 

Uhm logistics, shipping, packaging parts. Manufacturing your product that you have to pay so much attention to and the biggest mistake we're seeing. 

00:05:04 Speaker 1 

And I know Daria, you're going to jump into this right now is focusing on the front end too much? 

00:05:12 Speaker 2 

Yeah, I mean that's what I in Belinda I didn't know how we're going to tie those two things together, but I love that and yeah I mean everything. 

00:05:19 Speaker 2 

Especially in in ecommerce. But really across the globe has this sort of domino effect and. 

00:05:26 Speaker 2 

What we see? 

00:05:27 Speaker 2 

A lot is and and it is important, right? I don't want to say that the customer experience. 

00:05:32 Speaker 2 

Is not important because what the customer sees, how they interact with your brand. That is important. That creates repeat customers. 

00:05:39 Speaker 2 

And far too often we see you know clients who will say, Oh yeah, I'll just handle that manually. It's fine. 

00:05:48 Speaker 2 

Don't worry about that, just make sure it looks great and what happens is we do that right. The front end looks incredible, the back end is completely manual and because. 

00:06:00 Speaker 2 

Of this domino effect you get, you know, delayed customers get delayed orders because maybe something went out of stock or your inventory wasn't corrected properly and you were doing it manually, so something went out of stock, but somebody could. 

00:06:15 Speaker 2 

Order it or you were tracking your manufacturing process manually. Or maybe not really at all and one delayed part like Belinda was just saying affects inventory and everything to come and I think probably the biggest thing we see is how that works with. 

00:06:35 Speaker 2 

Shipping right so? 

00:06:38 Speaker 2 

I have a very good. I have a very good example. One of one of the stories that we worked on. 

00:06:44 Speaker 2 

I want to say back in October, it's actually my friends shop brew gentleman. They. I mean they're an amazing kind of COVID story in general because when COVID hit they have a their main. 

00:06:58 Speaker 2 

Business at the time was their taproom and they have incredible beers, but their main business was their taproom and they weren't selling in cans. 

00:07:04 Speaker 2 

They were just doing growlers and when COVID hit and people couldn't come to the top room anymore, they needed to pivot very quickly. 

00:07:12 Speaker 2 

And what they pivoted to you know, I commend them 'cause it worked at the time. 

00:07:18 Speaker 2 

But they went to Google Sheets and basically all the Google sheet was was to fill it out. If you're interested in beer. They then had one of their employees calling every single person who filled it out every Wednesday. 

00:07:35 Speaker 2 

For that week, getting their order, writing it down and collecting their credit card information by phone to process payment. Then they would write. 

00:07:45 Speaker 1 

Old school batch. 

00:07:47 Speaker 2 

It worked and then I think on Thursdays would be the pickups where Thursday morning they would fill up all the growlers manually for what was ordered, so they basically had a unlimited inventory model. 

00:07:58 Speaker 2 

They they weren't really controlling that at all. They were doing it almost like a pre sale and then they'd have to match. You know people, they would write down people license. 

00:08:06 Speaker 2 

Plates I think on the order and then when the license plate showed up they would find it they'd have like alphabetical and go and hand it out to the people. 

00:08:13 Speaker 2 

And again it worked, but you can imagine how manual that was and how much you know a more automated system would help you know their general manager and employees actually do something that worked better. 

00:08:26 Speaker 2 

So finally they were like alright, it's time for us to bring this online. Let's call Daria over at VP. Let's see what we can do and. 

00:08:37 Speaker 2 

What they did, I will say again. I commend them because the front end when they find when they first relaunched online ordering or first launch time on ordering the front end was fantastic. 

00:08:47 Speaker 2 

It really looked like a beer menu, right? You had your beers on the right, you would click plus when you wanted one, it would show up on the left. Very simple checkout. 

00:08:57 Speaker 2 

You'd pick the time that you were going to pick it up. We were using a couple of apps. 

00:09:01 Speaker 2 

They had inventory keyed in so they couldn't oversell anything. It was all working pretty well. 

00:09:08 Speaker 2 

On the front end. 

00:09:10 Speaker 2 

It wasn't until after launch that they realized how doing the back end more manually was going to cause a problem. And when I say manually for them, it was mostly. 

00:09:26 Speaker 2 

On the kind of pick up side because they were using an app that would handle kick UPS. So it would you know there wasn't really a way to group people based on pick up time or to organize everything. 

00:09:39 Speaker 2 

There is just a lot you know. They were getting thousands of orders per day for their beer, so manual works when you have. 

00:09:46 Speaker 2 

1020 thirty orders, but the label printing wasn't working well. That was manual. There were the IT was just all manual, so they shut it down. 

00:09:56 Speaker 2 

And you know, well, no, sorry they didn't judge them. They kept. They kept it open for a while, but then they said, you know what we need to pivot. 

00:10:05 Speaker 2 

We need to focus on the front end is the front end. People will figure out how to add our bearded card. 

00:10:10 Speaker 2 

We need to figure out the back end. We need to figure out shipping. We need to figure out weights. 

00:10:15 Speaker 2 

We need to figure out inventory. We need to figure all that out so they actually re launched. I think yesterday. 

00:10:22 Speaker 2 

And again, they're still getting, you know, anywhere from 500 to 1000 orders a day, but now it's automated. 

00:10:29 Speaker 2 

The orders that need to ship go automatically to ship station with a weight depending on the number of items in the order it gets the special packaging. Everything that needs to be picked up goes to a like label. 

00:10:41 Speaker 2 

Printer, like a receipt printer, so a receipt prints almost at like a restaurant. 

00:10:46 Speaker 2 

So they know what they have to pack and get ready, and they're no longer doing pickup times. So it's basically just you decide when you come pick it up and if you don't ever pick it up. 

00:10:58 Speaker 2 

It just kind of stays there and then they just match it based on order number and then yeah, I think the the main the. 

00:11:07 Speaker 2 

The main lesson there again is just that their lives are now so much easier and they can focus their time on expanding the business more flavors. Working with distributors instead of worrying about. 

00:11:21 Speaker 2 

Instead of worrying about whether the labels are printing. 

00:11:24 Speaker 2 

Did that all make sense, Belinda. 

00:11:26 Speaker 1 

Community amount of sense. Huge amount of sense and the issue is we we just see it so so often. 

00:11:34 Speaker 1 

Uhm, we're working with a client right now who launched or who bought an apparel brand about maybe a year and a half ago. 

00:11:46 Speaker 1 

And they also focused on the quality of their product. Absolutely having the best quality product, making sure that they're able to ship on time across country. 

00:12:01 Speaker 1 

Where they're not able to ship, rolling that back as fast as possible, they were shipping into Canada and then they just weren't able to make those deadlines. 

00:12:10 Speaker 1 

Uhm, so they rolled that back really fast and only now a year and a half later are they starting to focus on the front end? 

00:12:19 Speaker 1 

They've called us in. They have a multimillion dollar brand that has taken off because they focused on product and systems product and process. 

00:12:29 Speaker 1 

That's what they focused on and only now have they called us in to start looking at the user journey. 

00:12:36 Speaker 1 

Uhm, they built it on a free theme. Did not customize one color. One font threw up some images. 

00:12:49 Speaker 1 

Like I said, I mean they're competing with, you know, big, big, big brands. 

00:12:55 Speaker 2 

And they're, they're an amazing example because. 

00:12:58 Speaker 2 

Again, free theme, no customization. Really let the product speak for itself. 

00:13:05 Speaker 2 

They're making in the millions. Yeah, off of this they focus on marketing, right? They focus on targeting their marketing to figure out who the product speaks to. 

00:13:07 Speaker 1 

Yeah, yeah. 

00:13:14 

But the site. 

00:13:16 Speaker 2 

Second, yeah, they needed to figure out everything else they need to figure out their menu, 'cause they bought an apparel company after not knowing anything about apparel, right? 

00:13:26 Speaker 2 

So they need to figure out manufacturing they needed to figure out fulfillment. They needed to figure out marketing. Granted that a marketing background so that made it simpler. 

00:13:35 Speaker 2 

But it just goes to show you that for them the in my opinion they did it right. They focused on the MVP while making sure the back end was great, making sure the customer experience. 

00:13:45 Speaker 2 

Great, and now what they're focusing on is the front end. They have that base that solid foundation to now build on top of. 

00:13:52 Speaker 2 

And that's actually a good way to think about it. If you think about the back end as the foundation. 

00:13:58 Speaker 2 

And you think about the front end as kind of the house. 

00:14:02 Speaker 1 

Yep, that's 

00:14:02 Speaker 2 

Right, you need a solid foundation in order to build a house, right? You can't. Otherwise it'll just crumble and fall. 

00:14:09 Speaker 2 

And so I think you know the other kind of lesson is oftentimes we're doing more custom builds or or building out custom front ends. 

00:14:19 Speaker 2 

And we'll get stuck on the tiniest details that yes, details are important. 

00:14:27 Speaker 2 

But we often say lunch. 

00:14:30 Speaker 2 

These details can be worked out in the days or weeks right after lunch and you know you can, depending on what your marketing is doing as long as it is a. 

00:14:42 Speaker 2 

Relatively good experience and it's not a bad experience, and it's better than what you have now. We generally recommend launching. 

00:14:49 Speaker 1 

Yep, out brief. 

00:14:49 Speaker 2 

Yeah, right, so one obviously if you have nothing, anything is better than what you have now, but if you have something again, always work on iterating and updating and improving, but you will never get it. 

00:15:02 Speaker 2 

100% right the first try, so don't pretend or don't think that you will. 

00:15:08 Speaker 1 

No, and there's another reason why you put your. You know your initial start up into your product and process data. 

00:15:20 Speaker 1 

If you're a new product or you don't have experience in that vertical or that market. 

00:15:26 Speaker 1 

You just don't have the data to be able to make good decisions about what your customers want, but this brand that we're working with at the moment they took a wild guess they started. 

00:15:41 Speaker 1 

Photographing their images in a specific area in a specific state and have somehow through their story managed to speak to entire community. 

00:15:51 Speaker 1 

And and it's. 

00:15:53 Speaker 1 

Absolutely just taken off and now we have the data to be able to replicate that across. We can start replicating that into other states. 

00:16:03 Speaker 1 

Because they were authentic. 

00:16:08 Speaker 1 

All of the users that came to the site we've been able to track them using Google Analytics using heat map tracking using Shopify Analytics we have product data, buying patterns, shopping behavior. We have traffic data where their traffic is coming from, exclude their paid marketing. 

00:16:29 Speaker 1 

But let's look at where their organic and direct traffic is coming from. And then, of course, how are their customers interacting with their site? 

00:16:39 Speaker 1 

When you're starting off. 

00:16:41 Speaker 1 

You just don't have a statistically viable sample. 

00:16:47 Speaker 1 

To be able to make good decisions, you don't know if having a green button or a blue button is going to work until you try it out and show us the result of that a B test. So we can make a decision. 

00:16:58 Speaker 2 

For all of our listeners, statistically viable sample is probably Belinda's favorite, well statistically viable, or is it statistically significant sample that's your favorite saying. 

00:17:09 Speaker 1 

Statistically significant sample love it. 

00:17:12 Speaker 2 

I think you just mess up your favorite. You just mess up your favorite lines. 

00:17:15 Speaker 1 

Well, yeah, we've got to have a big enough data storm for us. 

00:17:17 Speaker 2 

Exactly viable is good. Statistically significant is good. 

00:17:21 Speaker 1 

We thought I have the numbers. 

00:17:21 Speaker 2 

And I think and. 

00:17:25 Speaker 2 

And we'll definitely talk about. 

00:17:26 Speaker 2 

This again, we'll likely talk about data driven design, conversion rate optimization, all that fun stuff a lot more later on, but I think it is. 

00:17:37 Speaker 2 

You know at this point as a company we almost. I mean, we really try and make it a rule that we won't do a redesign. 

00:17:45 Speaker 2 

Or redevelopment meaning, if you already have a site and you already have some data, we will not do or work on the project unless we can do an audit. Yeah, because. 

00:17:56 Speaker 2 

More than once we've been brought on maybe just to do the development right, so we didn't even have a say in the design of the site and a client will be very specific about the design, direction, and maybe they'll even borrow some elements from other sites that they like. But one thing, even one thing we said last week when we were going over. 

00:18:17 Speaker 2 

Frank Body website was you can't just look at another site be like, oh, I like what they're doing. Let's borrow that and put that on your site. 

00:18:26 Speaker 2 

You don't know if that's going to work for your visitors or for your site or for your user base. You can't just say, oh, I like how this works, so let's bring it over to us. 

00:18:35 Speaker 2 

What you have to do is look at how your customers are using your data. Sorry, using your site and then make those iterative decisions. 

00:18:44 Speaker 2 

On this side, and if you do like something, just have some data to back it, and I think again, we're just kind of going into how. 

00:18:51 Speaker 2 

You got to lodge with your MVP. 

00:18:54 Speaker 2 

You have to get some of that statistically significant data and then you have to iterate and iterate and iterate and see what's working and see what's not working in. Let's say you build something and you spend a few $1000. 

00:19:05 Speaker 2 

But it might not work, so you can roll it back. Yeah, and I think if the if the logistics are sound then you can start focusing on the front end and that's when you can get closer and closer to you know, perfect as perfect as can be I guess. 

00:19:23 Speaker 1 

I've got a question. If you have an MVP, uhm, OK. Let's just say you have an established brand, so this this is a use case scenario and it's it's a natural question. 

00:19:36 Speaker 1 

I have, you know my brand and I I want to do a re theme and I want to do a new design. 

00:19:43 Speaker 1 

Is there any way that say on Shopify that I can keep the old design and only let 50%? Can I test it? Can I test the new theme against the old like we're splitting the traffic? 

00:19:57 Speaker 1 

Can you do that on a platform like Shopify? 

00:20:00 Speaker 2 

Not that I know of. By default I mean the the. 

00:20:05 Speaker 2 

Way you could do that in theory, I think there's two ways. One if you're on Shopify, Plus you could potentially set up a clone store at a different URL. 

00:20:17 Speaker 2 

It would have to be at a different URL. Or maybe you could mask the URL so they look the same and then you could split your ads that way. The other option is using something like optimizely. 

00:20:29 Speaker 2 

And again, I I actually. 

00:20:32 Speaker 2 

Haven't used optimizely so I don't know how that works with testing different themes. I think the other thing you could do well. 

00:20:40 Speaker 2 

This is what we see most often, and one of the reasons why we often like to work within an existing theme or maybe even try and keep some design elements of a previous theme. 

00:20:52 Speaker 2 

Is you can have a landing page right? So maybe you test a new design by building a new landing page in your current site and then you can more easily split traffic. 

00:21:03 Speaker 2 

I think the issue is is trying to split traffic to two different themes. 

00:21:07 Speaker 1 

Yeah, that would be great. Yeah so. 

00:21:07 Speaker 2 

Does make sense? 

00:21:09 Speaker 2 

This technically an unpublished theme shouldn't really be seeing any live traffic. 

00:21:14 Speaker 2 

So you'd need to get some code onto the live theme and then split your traffic that way. 

00:21:20 Speaker 1 

Yeah, that makes sense now. What would be what would be an MVP at the bare minimum. 

00:21:27 Speaker 1 

Uhm, you know I I've got I've got all my logistics and everything sorted out. What's the bare minimum that I need? Is it just the home page collection page and product page what? 

00:21:41 Speaker 1 

What would be the basic? 

00:21:44 Speaker 2 

So I think it's less about that and more 'cause yes, I mean the basics would be. 

00:21:51 Speaker 2 

The home page product page collection page. Obviously you're FHQ things like that. 

00:21:56 Speaker 2 

I always think an informational page is important. If you're not conveying that on the home page, I think more what I'm speaking to when I talk about an MVP is. 

00:22:09 Speaker 2 

Realizing that you can make changes so I am more kind of thinking about. 

00:22:16 Speaker 2 

Font size is right. People will will be obsessed about. Oh why is that bold? 

00:22:23 Speaker 2 

Why is that? 

00:22:24 Speaker 2 

You know, I'm trying to think about our rum. 

00:22:28 Speaker 2 

Actually, a launch that was supposed to happen on I think Wednesday or Thursday. Well, actually most happened last week. Then it was pushed to this week. Then this week we kind of pivoted and you know the. 

00:22:41 Speaker 2 

There, this particular client is just very. 

00:22:46 Speaker 2 

Kind of, I guess obsessed with perfection. 

00:22:50 Speaker 2 

Uhm, you know I'm actually not even sure at this point where where they stand with the new theme, but it's, you know, it's the kind of point where the new theme is such an improvement over what they have now, and they're just spending thousands of thousands of dollars to improve. 

00:23:10 Speaker 2 

The existing site when we have a new site ready to go, that's I've already been worked on, but they're very obsessed with the padding and the font size and the this and that when you know they can launch and then we can address those little things later. 

00:23:25 Speaker 2 

That answered the question or not really? 

00:23:27 Speaker 1 

It does, it does, and this this kind of obsession with the smallest of details is. 

00:23:34 Speaker 1 

Is interesting and where as an agency how much? How much do you push back? 

00:23:42 Speaker 1 

I'm lucky because I come from the data size and I say this in many, many meetings. What I know about design is is you know. 

00:23:49 Speaker 1 

Well, I don't care, I don't care. I don't care. Website Looks like as long as I'm seeing the numbers and I'm seeing the conversion. And for me the journey the MVP journey. 

00:24:00 Speaker 1 

Me, yes, we want someone to check out that's that's that's the end goal. Or subscribe or sign up to a subscription or join and pay a membership fee. So that's the end goal. How do we get them there? 

00:24:16 Speaker 1 

You know if if you don't have the right shade of fricking teal button, you know, or the exact shades aren't exactly right. I don't care. We need to know that that UI. 

00:24:29 Speaker 1 

And that UX journey is part of the MVP solution and does that mean before you get to design you should look at wireframing and site map. 

00:24:41 Speaker 2 

I mean, site map is probably the single most important thing that is often looked over. Kind of what that user journey, what the path to purchase is right? 

00:24:50 Speaker 2 

We actually say this a lot and I think we were talking about this a couple of weeks ago, but we had a client have a client who we had to build out a collection page for them because. 

00:25:01 Speaker 2 

Their original site didn't have one, and the path to purchase was basically home page directly to a like sample pack of a product. 

00:25:13 Speaker 2 

Where you could kind of navigate to individual flavors, but it was difficult and there was no real way to browse, so I think probably. 

00:25:23 Speaker 2 

The sitemap was a bit overlooked. There are kind of the best practice for paths to purchase was a bit overlooked there and they probably went. They actually probably switched skip wire framing as well and just went straight into. 

00:25:35 Speaker 2 

Design and my guess is that the they were maybe a bit enamored 'cause the design is pretty cool, but it was missing some of those pretty foundational elements when it comes to path to purchase, and I think you know again when it comes to when it comes to that MVP, you know we will spend weeks and weeks and weeks. 

00:25:56 Speaker 2 

On these little things. 

00:25:59 Speaker 2 

And sometimes months. I think we. I think we were supposed to close out one project in February and it's literally been six weeks of oak. 

00:26:07 Speaker 2 

And what about this font size here? Oh, and this pink is a little bit too pink and oh, this menu. 

00:26:12 Speaker 2 

Oh, what about this? What about weather? And it's it's like, you know you're just losing weeks of sales by not. 

00:26:19 Speaker 2 

Having it up, especially when you can launch and you can make those adjustments later and generally. 

00:26:28 Speaker 2 

Those again, we've seen some of the ugliest sites converting at 10%. 

00:26:35 Speaker 2 

So it just says that the user journey what the user experience is and the messaging is so important whereas you know how wide a button is. 

00:26:49 Speaker 2 

Maybe less important until you if you have data that says no. Actually smaller buttons. 

00:26:55 Speaker 2 

Perform twice as good as big buttons, and yeah. 

00:26:57 Speaker 2 

All we should have a big button, but if it's 20 pixels versus 22 pixels, that's kind of where I am. You know, a little bit more I'm sure. 

00:27:09 Speaker 1 

Yeah, I would agree. 

00:27:11 Speaker 1 

It's frustrating. 

00:27:13 Speaker 2 

Yeah, I mean, I think I think again we. 

00:27:17 Speaker 2 

I will always say launch get your revenue in, invest your revenue and then data driven decisions. I think actually the lesson from today and the reason the reason why this is so important is because you're spending weeks where you're losing revenue on these little details when you don't have. 

00:27:38 Speaker 2 

Any data to back those details so launch. 

00:27:39 Speaker 1 

Yeah, correct. 

00:27:42 Speaker 2 

Get some data and then see if your details were correct and then make those edits and I think that's really what the thesis from today is, so it's it's the details are important but one pixel. 

00:27:55 Speaker 2 

Is not going to make or break your site. 

00:27:58 Speaker 2 

Make sure your back end logistics are working because that's where your headache is going to come from, and that's how you're going to lose customers. 

00:28:06 Speaker 2 

That could have been repeat customers. 

00:28:09 Speaker 2 

And make focus on your product. Focus on your product quality. Focus on your photography and make sure you're getting your marketing right. 

00:28:17 Speaker 2 

Those are really the the key elements to a successful E Commerce site and what we see works time and time again. 

00:28:26 Speaker 1 

Sounds good. 

00:28:26 Speaker 2 

All right and with. 

00:28:27 Speaker 2 

With that I think we are almost at time. Any final thoughts? 

00:28:32 Speaker 1 

Well, you know I was going to make a joke. I was since this is E. Com stand up and and most of the time we're we're either laughing or laughing so hard we're crying into. 

00:28:41 Speaker 1 

Our cereal bowls. 

00:28:43 Speaker 1 

I was gonna make a joke about the ship that got stuck in the Suez Canal, but unfortunately that ship has sailed. 

00:28:54 

I was going. 

00:28:54 Speaker 2 

To say there wasn't enough laughing in this episode, I think we I think next week we have to do another website takedown because that was that was really so much fun and. 

00:29:07 Speaker 2 

Very, very exciting and I I definitely laughed a lot. So that was fun. Anyway, with that happy Friday happy holidays to you. 

00:29:14 Speaker 2 

Belinda, I hope you enjoy your weekend. I hope you enjoy Easter. Everyone who's listening same to you and we will see you next week.